Brazil's Environment Minister Ricardo Salles will attend a meeting of the Mercosur region this week in Buenos Aires, where he will propose a common urban environmental and ecotourism agenda, he said in an interview with EFE.
That agenda will include the care of shared rivers and other aspects, explained Salles, who also denied that the Government of Jair Bolsonaro intends to "end" the policies of protection of the Amazon or abandon the Paris Agreement on climate change.
PQUESTION: This will be your first formal meeting with the Environment Ministers of Mercosur. What proposal does Brazil bring?
ANSWER: The idea is to deal with common problems. Climate issues, but also to take advantage of the opportunity to deal with urban environmental problems, sanitation issues, waste treatment, air quality. If we have the opportunity to deal with these urban environmental quality issues in a coordinated manner, it will be a good start. Another issue of interest to us is tourism, having some joint activities in the area of ecotourism. All the countries (of Mercosur) have the possibility of attracting tourists from Europe, North America or Asia who come to South America and we can present a common offer.
Q: That's been tried before and it never worked. What would be different now?
A: We have to make a distinction with ecotourism. I think that if we get the participation of private operators and bring together the natural beauties of our countries, it can be for a specific type of tourism. And ecological tourism is different. There is bird watching tourism and many other things that Mercosur can offer. We will also present some ideas for payments for environmental services, which are of interest to Argentina, Paraguay, and the whole of Mercosur, and can be interesting for a common agenda.
Q: Many of the shared rivers have high levels of pollution. What can be done about this?
A: The use of common water resources is another important issue. We have regulations for fishing production in Itaipú (border between Brazil and Paraguay) or for fish farming in border rivers. We can have efforts to clean up common rivers. The urban environmental quality agenda also provides experiences. We have examples in more developed countries and they are an inspiration, but we must be pragmatic and objective in order to adapt them to the economic and cultural reality of our countries, even if we have greater limitations in terms of investments.
Q: In the case of rivers, sanitation is key, as the deficiencies are common to countries in the region.
A: The tone of river decontamination is determined by two aspects: the health of the population and the quality of the environment for the life of the species that inhabit these biomes. We need to call the attention of the governments to expand and improve the collection of sewage and the efficiency of treatment, to have a better environment in our waterways. Less developed countries have very high costs in health issues, among other things due to the lack of sanitation.
Q: And that includes garbage collection and treatment?
A: In relation to waste, we also want to adapt the best experiences to our situation. We have serious problems in that area that have not yet been adequately addressed. It is a very important issue for the environment and generates very serious problems that must be addressed. There are problems that are the responsibility of the municipalities, others of the companies. It would be important to achieve better coordination, especially between the border states of Mercosur.
Q: Is this part of a common agenda for urban environmental quality?
A: We can discuss how to standardize all of this. We also have problems with agricultural products that come from Mercosur countries with different technical restrictions and everything transcends legal borders. The environment also has no borders and what happens in one country or in common rivers ends up affecting everyone.
Q: Another issue linked to Mercosur and the environmental agenda is the controversies linked to the possible withdrawal of Brazil from the Paris Agreement, at the time encouraged by President Bolsonaro.
A: First, Brazil remains in the Paris Agreement. Second, it maintains all its commitments on the climate agenda. Therefore, there has not been, contrary to what is being said, any change so far in public policies regarding the climate. Brazil has made great progress in its goals, unlike other countries that pressure us and say they will not meet their goals. Ours are being met and are advanced in terms of reducing emissions and deforestation or increasing reforested areas.
Q: Are those goals not going to change?
A: The goals have not changed and Brazil will meet them. The agreements between the government and the private sector continue. Amid the rhetoric of the discussion, practice shows that nothing has changed. Investments in these areas remain the same. What we are doing is combining efforts in areas that were not addressed. The agenda for sanitation, waste treatment and air quality did not exist. We are adding it and that must be quantified as a contribution to the climate agenda. Also on the agenda is investment in preserved areas through concessions to the private sector or ecotourism, which can be useful to all Mercosur countries. Preserved areas must have some economic dynamism and that is a great challenge. All with management that is effective in protecting the environment.
Q: In recent years, these policies have not worked very well, at least according to reports that speak of the persistent increase in Amazonian deforestation.
A: The increase in deforestation must be contained with policies that add value. If natural resources are not given a value logic, they will be exploited in a confused or even illegal way. That is why management is so important. Good speeches are not enough. Good practices must be in place.
Q: Is good oversight also necessary in addition to this?
A: Our territory is huge, so the logic of supervision is not enough. There must be supervision and good surveillance by means of radars. The word is technology. But adequate economic incentives are also necessary to take advantage of biodiversity for the benefit of the population that lives in these areas, who do not feel any benefit from this supposed wealth. It is necessary to have the notion of economic exploitation of this wealth, because if these people do not feel the benefit, they turn to illegal activities. Even so, and although the result of deforestation policies could be better, the phenomenon is fairly contained. Brazil's emissions of polluting gases do not reach 3%. The most developed countries, the United States, China and India, together account for 70% of these emissions. And the complement that we are going to provide is the urban environmental quality agenda, chosen as priority number one.
Q: Still, there is a lot of criticism from environmentalists and even from all of your predecessors in office, who a few days ago complained about the policies of the Bolsonaro government? Is there a lack of understanding of these policies or are they antagonistic ideological positions?
A: Neither one thing nor the other. I think that several aspects are mixed together. First, the lack of awareness that we are not doing less than what had been done. So much so that no concrete action is pointed out to us. Because there is none. The Government, on the contrary, aims to improve management, the efficiency of investments and results. Nothing was interrupted.
Q: The government has restricted spending due to its fiscal problems. Does this affect the environmental area?
A: We don't have any major budget problems. The cuts that have been said to have taken place do not correspond to reality. And this is a ministry that formulates policies and works with the private sector. The work is more a matter of capacity and planning than budgets. Therefore, that will not have much of an impact.
By: Eduardo Davis, EFE
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